A Vampire:the Masquerade game set in the fictional town of Havershome, Scotland


    Talking Points

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    James
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    Talking Points

    Post  James on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:38 am

    Just a couple of things that I found myself thinking about while designing this. Feel free to chip in if desired, but I really just post so you can see some of the thinking.

    Prince Elaine was Embraced at fifteen in, if she is to be believed, the late fifteenth century. At that time I don't think she'd have had the Childe flaw - she could well have been married and running a household. Now of course she would. Of course, as Prince she likely doesn't interact with that many mortals but taking an equivalent character I imagine it'd lead to a whole load of bitterness.

    Ghouls and love - I actually thought about this during Embrace wrt Hank. Jess had appearance 5 and Hank was straight. He wanted to see her boobies because, hey, they were awesome. So far so good. But he was also a ghoul. The rules for the blood bond seem to leave so much open to STs. Are ghouls sexually attracted to their domitors regardless? At all? Only if genitalia and personal preferences match? Essentially, what do they actually think about the person who's the most important thing in their life. Sex seems obvious but doesn't, I think, catch everything. Hell, ghouls are creepy - how many do you reckon creep into their masters room while they're asleep and fuck them? Is necrophilia common in ghouls? Leaving sex aside, can a ghoul maintain a a relationship with anyone else? How do they feel about other ghouls of the domitor?

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    Dùghall

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    Re: Talking Points

    Post  Dùghall on Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:38 am

    James wrote:Just a couple of things that I found myself thinking about while designing this. Feel free to chip in if desired, but I really just post so you can see some of the thinking.

    Prince Elaine was Embraced at fifteen in, if she is to be believed, the late fifteenth century. At that time I don't think she'd have had the Childe flaw - she could well have been married and running a household. Now of course she would. Of course, as Prince she likely doesn't interact with that many mortals but taking an equivalent character I imagine it'd lead to a whole load of bitterness.

    Totally agree with the logic there, I think this would apply to many older vampires and in that it is a very very interesting flaw. Of course the difference in regard to that flaw is also gender based even there ... gender and vampires is a strange thing , allthough I think it has been brought up by the Canon (Lassombra book I believe ?).

    Added to that would Assamites for example out of Yemen where "child" marriages are common have less of a problem with the child flaw in female vampires, or come to that , mormons? I don't know but I would imagine them having less trouble dealing with Elaine for example apart from the cultural differences regarding women in general Razz.


    James wrote:Ghouls and love - I actually thought about this during Embrace wrt Hank. Jess had appearance 5 and Hank was straight. He wanted to see her boobies because, hey, they were awesome. So far so good. But he was also a ghoul. The rules for the blood bond seem to leave so much open to STs. Are ghouls sexually attracted to their domitors regardless? At all? Only if genitalia and personal preferences match? Essentially, what do they actually think about the person who's the most important thing in their life. Sex seems obvious but doesn't, I think, catch everything. Hell, ghouls are creepy - how many do you reckon creep into their masters room while they're asleep and fuck them? Is necrophilia common in ghouls? Leaving sex aside, can a ghoul maintain a a relationship with anyone else? How do they feel about other ghouls of the domitor?

    Again complex and up to ST and/or player.
    Physically the lubrication/bloodspending could be an issue Wink, but that is just a technicality. I think the "bride of Jesus" phenomenon experienced (from what I understand in it being related in various literature etc.) of Nuns (possibly also Monks) would be a better annalogy.

    We then start leaning towards the Cult status which Vampires held in the past according to Canon. (Some interesting ones among the Malkavians with definite sexual undertones Wink, can't remember her name now, but blood flowing as male worshipers castrated themselves in ecstatic dances ... hmm.

    Yeah Ghopuls are creepy!

    I think Ghouls can have relationships, but they would be complex, again Clergy analogy seems most appropriate ...

    Just my 2cents
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    Jason McBain

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    Re: Talking Points

    Post  Jason McBain on Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:44 am

    At the end of the day I think the closest real-world analogy has to be the relationship between junkie and supplier. The junkie loves/craves the blood and consequently has a very dependent attitude toward the domitor. Moreover, it is my understanding from the Ghoul book, that ghouls take on aspects of the domitor so, the domitor takes on two roles as both supplier and role-model. That would be a hard habit to kick but, in real-life, junkies do have lives outside of everything in the drug sphere so to speak. I'd imagine, based on the desires of the domitor, a ghoul could have a life away from them (but on a long or short leash).

    On the former point, if she had been embraced in the 15th century, then 15 years old was, roughly, the middle of her life. Childhood tended to end (as now) at puberty, but adolescence was not an issue (one day, child, next day, adult). Okay, maybe not quite so abrupt, maybe a little more leeway the higher up the social scale one goes.
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    Dùghall

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    Re: Talking Points

    Post  Dùghall on Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:02 am

    Is this the place to quote Carl Marx ?
    Spoiler:

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    James
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    Re: Talking Points

    Post  James on Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:22 am

    Well, lets not pluck quotes out of context:

    Spoiler:
    Marx wrote:Die profane Existenz des Irrtums ist compromittirt, nachdem seine himmlische oratio pro aris et focis widerlegt ist. Der Mensch, der in der phantastischen Wirklichkeit des Himmels, wo er einen Uebermenschen suchte, nur den Wiederschein seiner selbst gefunden hat, wird nicht mehr geneigt sein, nur den Schein seiner selbst, nur den Unmenschen zu finden, wo er seine wahre Wirklichkeit sucht und suchen muss.

    Das Fundament der irreligiösen Kritik ist: Der Mensch macht die Religion, die Religion macht nicht den Menschen. Und zwar ist die Religion das Selbstbewusstsein und das Selbstgefühl des Menschen, der sich selbst entweder noch nicht erworben, oder schon wieder verloren hat. Aber der Mensch, das ist kein abstraktes, ausser der Welt hockendes Wesen. Der Mensch, das ist die Welt des Menschen, Staat, Societät. Dieser Staat, diese Societät produziren die Religion, ein verkehrtes Weltbewusstsein, weil sie eine verkehrte Welt sind. Die Religion ist die allgemeine Theorie dieser Welt, ihr encyklopädisches Compendium, ihre Logik in populärer Form, ihr spiritualistischer Point-d'honneur, ihr Enthusiasmus, ihre moralische Sanktion ihre feierliche Ergänzung, ihr allgemeiner Trost- und Rechtfertigungsgrund. Sie ist die phantastische Verwirklichung des menschlichen Wesens, weil das menschliche Wesen keine wahre Wirklichkeit besitzt. Der Kampf gegen die Religion ist also mittelbar der Kampf gegen jene Welt, deren geistiges Aroma die Religion ist.

    Das religiöse Elend ist in einem der Ausdruck des wirklichen Elendes und in einem die Protestation gegen das wirkliche Elend. Die Religion ist der Seufzer der bedrängten Kreatur, das Gemüth einer herzlosen Welt, wie sie der Geist geistloser Zustände ist. Sie ist das Opium des Volks.

    Die Aufhebung der Religion als des illusorischen Glücks des Volkes ist die Forderung seines wirklichen Glücks. Die Forderung, die Illusionen über seinen Zustand aufzugeben, ist die Forderung, einen Zustand aufzugeben, der der Illusionen bedarf. Die Kritik der Religion ist also im Keim die Kritik des Jammertales, dessen Heiligenschein die Religion ist.

    Translation (by me) "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the mind of a heartless world, as it is the soul of a souless condition. It is the Opium of the People." (I deeply dislike "Volks" being translated as "Masses". Menschen is masses, Volks has connotations of citizenhood, of national identity, etc.)

    Point is, Marx wasn't being as critical of religion(there at least) as is commonly suspected.
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    Dùghall

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    Re: Talking Points

    Post  Dùghall on Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:40 am

    In a world ruled by vampires it actually fits even better to describe the Ghoul then Wink
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    James
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    Re: Talking Points

    Post  James on Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:51 am

    Incidentally, when I was studying Theology I read a lot of Kant. And Christ was that hard work. I've just read the rest of that essay and its equally unreadable. There was clearly some trend in 18th and 19th German philosophy to make writing as horrifically ugly as possible.

    I kinda blame Kant for this actually, as a trailblazer. His writing is famously bad and in a few places it seems even he gets confused by his convulted grammar:

    Spoiler:
    Kant wrote:Da heißt nun die Bedingung von dem, was geschieht, die Ursache.
    springs quite readily to mind.

    and I guess that sort of set the tone for what is expected from German thinkers.
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    James
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    Re: Talking Points

    Post  James on Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:53 am

    Dùghall wrote:In a world ruled by vampires it actually fits even better to describe the Ghoul then Wink

    Ha, thats a good point

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